Making Complex Healthcare Topics Simple | EP 8

In this episode of Healthcare Marketing Edge, Tim Bouchard and Jolene Myers, Marketing Manager at Nova Healthcare Administrators discuss the challenges of healthcare marketing, particularly the need to simplify complex language for patients and referral partners. They explore the importance of building trust through clear communication, the power of storytelling in marketing, and strategies for creating patient-centric content. The conversation emphasizes the significance of measuring engagement and continuously improving marketing efforts based on audience feedback.

Tim Bouchard (00:00)
Welcome to Health Care Marketing Edge, where we share stories and strategies to grow your practice. I’m Tim Bouchard from Luminus a health care marketing agency specializing in helping practices acquire patients and grow their practice. Today, we’re tackling a challenge every health care marketer faces, making complex topics simple and empowering for patients. Our guest is Jolene Myers, marketing manager at Nova Health Care Administrators, who mastered the art of turning industry jargon into clarity that drives action. And whether you’re explaining treatment options to patients or services to

referral partners this episode is definitely going to be for you. And while health care administration is not quite practice management, it does have very similar audiences and a very similar way of building trust and doing copy and messaging. So, Jolene, I think you have a lot to say on this. It’s going to be great to have you here. So thanks for jumping on.

Jolene Myers (00:48)
Yeah, thanks so much. Just want to start out by saying, you know, Nova is a third party administrator here in Buffalo. We work with employers nationwide to administer their self-funded benefits.

And we also work with brokers in the employee benefits space who offer self-funded plans to their clients. So my role is to take all those moving parts in that crazy world, things like stop loss insurance and provider networks and claims, some of the terminology you guys might be familiar with and make them understandable ⁓ for people who need to use them. So on the marketing side, that includes building tools and campaigns and education to show brokers, employers and employees that healthcare does.

Tim Bouchard (01:16)
Mm-hmm.

Jolene Myers (01:29)
does

not always have to sound like a foreign language.

Tim Bouchard (01:32)
Yeah. Why is it so critical on the marketing side, both for patients and for network peers to have the right way of speaking to them and simplifying these complex acronyms and there’s terminology and you know, there’s all sorts of official things that you have to go through, even like the actual policies and laws and regulations that are out there. Why is that so important to simplify?

Jolene Myers (01:47)
Yeah, yeah.

yeah, there’s a lot.

I mean, honestly, the principle is still the same, right? So people want answers, they don’t want acronyms, right? So talking, you know, whether we’re talking to an employer about funding models, ⁓ or talking to patients about their benefits, it’s about kind of curbing the jargon and focusing on what matters to them. doctors and practices face the same challenge. People don’t want a lecture in medical school terms, right? They want clear guidance that they can act on.

Tim Bouchard (02:27)
Yeah, and even like another way look at this too is not only simplification of the terms and the actual information, but also talking about outcome based messaging too.

you know, whether it’s benefit messaging, on the administration side or ease of use or process, or even on the practice and surgical side, the outcome of what happens when you do have a procedure or, you know, go down a certain route of treatment that connects better with people than just simply like spewing terms and knowledge at them.

Jolene Myers (03:03)
Yeah, so healthcare is so overwhelming generally anyway, right? So even if you are sick or you’re a caretaker, you’ve got a lot going on, right? So if you layer on that confusing language, it’s going to shut people right down. And I think the main goal is to just explain things simplistically. If you build trust, know, trust is what is going to get you to help people take that next step in the partnership, right? So whether it’s signing onto a health plan or following a treatment plan that

Tim Bouchard (03:12)
Mm-hmm.

Jolene Myers (03:33)
that

your provider kind of, you know, carves out for you. ⁓ I think there’s a stigma in some industries like simplifying is dumbing down, but I’ve always looked at it like it’s just making the content usable so people can learn and take action and feel empowered.

Tim Bouchard (03:49)
Especially what we’re talking about to a lot of what we’re talking about is first touch or you know early touch content too and no one needs to be overwhelmed early on you can always bring in proficient speak and you know your knowledge and Exact terminology when things get more serious, but you have to be approachable before you can open up the book of seriousness

Jolene Myers (04:12)
Yeah, I mean, if I say something and it sounds like I’m in a board meeting, ⁓ instead of talking to a friend or family, that’s my first red flag, right? So just, I always say my process is, know, writing it down first.

Tim Bouchard (04:17)
Yeah.

Jolene Myers (04:27)
as you know it, as you know it as an industry expert or just somebody that’s been in meetings hearing some of the subject matter experts in those areas, write it down the way they say it, and then pretend you’re talking to a, you know, your mom, a neighbor, your kid even. ⁓ And if it doesn’t make sense in that setting, just keep simplifying it until it does.

Tim Bouchard (04:47)
Yeah, we had something similar with someone who was a guest on the podcast already with CBCS who helps.

⁓ bridge the gap between underserved people in the community and health care services because they don’t have the transportation or the knowledge or the ability to get connected. And if you just go at that saying, you know, we connect people to services. Well, that’s fine. That’s very straightforward, but it doesn’t actually give like the meaning and purpose and outcome and value to it. And especially on the referral network provider side and the B2B side, that’s really important is what’s the impact both on the people you’re helping and on the system that they rely on.

Jolene Myers (05:18)
sure.

Tim Bouchard (05:23)
too. And we talk about trust a lot. Health care marketing, health care branding, whether you’re even B2B side, you have to trust your network or you have to trust your providers before you even take any action that’s usually patient centric or in B2B’s case, audience centric. You have to come from their perspective.

Jolene Myers (05:24)
Yep.

Yep.

Absolutely. Yeah,

otherwise it shuts them right down.

Right? You know, I think one of the things we wanted to talk about is what happens to engagement and trust when audiences ⁓ encounter language they understand, it shuts them down. So confusion makes people just completely turn out, out rather. They lose confidence in you and your organization or practice. And then, you know, you’re getting nowhere. So if you really, you know, you make things clear and approachable, ⁓ you become the guide that they want to stick with. So that’s really the end game, right? So trust builds when people

feel like you’re taking their side and you’re not talking over their head.

Tim Bouchard (06:22)
Is there any litmus test that you use on internal copy or when you’re reviewing things that says like, might not be audience centric enough. We might be speaking over people’s heads. Like, do you have like a grade grading system or some sort of tell that you look to for that?

Jolene Myers (06:40)
I mean, I feel like it’s one of those things where if you hand it to somebody that doesn’t work in healthcare and they squint and they’re like, what does that mean? ⁓ You’ve got jargon, you know? ⁓

Tim Bouchard (06:52)
Mm-hmm.

Jolene Myers (06:55)
read it out loud to yourself. It’s an old tip in journalism school that they teach you. Read things out loud and if it’s sounding clunky coming out of your mouth, you know, it’s probably too technical for your audience. So I think just talking to people and asking them, hey, what do you think about this? Somebody outside the space even is helpful.

Tim Bouchard (07:13)
Yeah, how one of the ways that we talked about in some of our previous prep conversations is that you can actually use storytelling to bridge some of these gaps to where it’s really approachable because you’re not only speaking in ⁓ an understanding way, but you’re actually providing a scenario or ⁓ something to go along with where it kind of shows the start to finish, you know, problem to benefit or problem to outcome process. How have you seen storytelling help bridge this gap to?

Jolene Myers (07:43)
Yeah, I love a good story. ⁓ So this is where case studies, brands love a good story. This is where I think case studies in your content marketing strategy really come into play. Instead of just listening.

Tim Bouchard (07:46)
Brands love a good story too. Yeah.

Jolene Myers (07:58)
or listing rather, instead of just listing out the mechanics of self-funded insurance, right? The solution. What does that mean? Claims, clinical data, stop loss insurance, compliance. You mentioned all the laws and regulations, right? Instead of just listing those out, you really tap into the stories of an employer who was dealing with the rising cost of healthcare, like a lot of employers are, you know, be it any size. And they found stability and they found flexibility in a self-funded

funded solution. And, know, through if it’s our disease management programs or ⁓ recommendations, you know, tailored around their plan population, they found success there. So I think framing it as a real journey, so to speak, makes it easier for other people to see themselves in that situation and imagine the outcome. ⁓ It’s kind of pulling at the heartstrings, but also we’re all human beings, right? So you want to say, hey, you have this experience, that’s kind of where I’m at right now. You know,

Tim Bouchard (08:53)
Mm-hmm.

Jolene Myers (08:58)
What’s the feedback there? are some of the roads I could go down to fix this?

Tim Bouchard (09:03)
Yeah, we’ve pulled that card on the orthopedic side. We’ve had surgeons and the people that they helped years prior at this point with that patient’s buy in and compliance along the way to actually not just write a case study or an outcome based story on the website. We’ve actually done videos with them too to actually really pull at

what that meant to that person and the relationship that was built between the provider and the patient. And that goes a long way if you’re trying to be like, ⁓ I got a couple of different options, I like the one where I know that that’s how they behave together or they interact together. And that’s, you know, it’s really more impactful when you go for that lookalike story.

Jolene Myers (09:50)
Agreed, and I know you wanted to talk about, you know, even facts and stories, right? So facts kind of, facts tell you what something is. Stories show you why it’s important and why it matters.

Tim Bouchard (09:55)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jolene Myers (10:02)
So

if I just give you numbers, you on a piece of paper, you might nod politely and say like, all right, and then forget them and walk out the door. But if I, if I tell you someone who felt the same frustrations as you found relief, you know, you’re going to lean into that and you’re going to connect emotionally. And I think that’s what sticks. Right. So you need, I always say my team at work, you know, you need a blend of the warm and fuzzies and the data because the two really work together to show value, to drive value, and then also show empathy, which

that connects us all.

Tim Bouchard (10:34)
Yeah, let’s talk about all those different types of content. How do you see them working together? you using different channels differently or using different types of content to accomplish different things? Where do you kind of see the mixture for people so they don’t come off too touchy feely or emotionally driven and have some competency built into that content structure too?

Jolene Myers (10:58)
Yeah, think so. launched a couple of years ago, we launched a video campaign and it was called What’s Possible in a a self-funded arrangement. And it was there because, OK, we knew that a lot of our audience just based on A B testing and stuff, they liked the videos, right? So we knew we had to live in that space. But one thing we did do so it wasn’t too overwhelming is provide ⁓ links to additional supplemental content within the YouTube descriptions so that they could revisit that at the

own time and kind of take bites of that and digest it as needed. ⁓ I think a lot of times it’s meeting your audience where they are. ⁓ If you know there is a certain practice that maybe has you know a different population where they’re older or they know by surveying them, which is important, you always got to kind of tap into your audience. ⁓ If they’re not on YouTube or they don’t like videos, know, then that’s something that you really got to consider because you want to meet people where they are ⁓ and make sure that they’re able to digest the

content and make meaning of it and kind of connect the dots in that way. So I think, again, I don’t want to sound repetitive, but I think just kind of tapping into what your audience needs and when they need it and where they’re getting it is huge.

Tim Bouchard (12:11)
and

not overwhelming them with too much information up front too, so you’re kind of giving them like a step by step way, maybe not step by step, just different ways to go deeper at their own pace, essentially.

Jolene Myers (12:22)
For sure. For sure.

Tim Bouchard (12:23)
And the other thing that you can consider too is the channel matters too, right? Like if you’re doing more maybe referral based marketing, you might be pushing certain types of content out on say like LinkedIn or through maybe even like Reddit threads and things like that. And you might actually want to be slightly more technical in that type of content than you would be, let’s say on the Instagram meta.

Jolene Myers (12:29)
Yeah.

Yep.

Tim Bouchard (12:51)
you know, that type of side of things where you’re really reaching like the average audience person and not only are the different content approaches, but also the types of content, the sample size of what you’re providing people in each of those channels is different too.

Jolene Myers (13:08)
Yeah, for sure. ⁓ You know, you want to give people, I always think about it like choice equals control. ⁓

Tim Bouchard (13:17)
Mm.

Jolene Myers (13:17)
So when people decide how much information to take in, they’re going to be more comfortable and engaged. And again, especially if they’ve got a lot of stuff going on, right? If they’re ill or they’re a caretaker, there’s a lot of stuff going on in their world. So if you dump everything on them all at once, it feels like drinking from a fire hose, which does not sound very pleasant. No thanks. So giving them the options, it respects their time and it makes them more likely to come back for more.

Tim Bouchard (13:46)
Now, when it comes to developing content like this, it can seem on the marketer or practitioner side, very overwhelming to even think about jumping into something like this too. Is there any advice on how to ease into it? Because you don’t have to do all of it at once. So, good points to start at, where can you use it? Can it be diversified, spread out?

Jolene Myers (14:07)
You don’t need a Hollywood studio. I mean, I think that’s every marketer’s dream, right? To have access to all these tools and have the budget. We’re a smaller company and we’ve found ⁓ several ways over the years to scale on a limited budget. So my advice is to just start small, ⁓ take one comment, patient question, and make a short video or an infographic. And then, you know, you can link it to a handout or ⁓ FAQ, know, facts and questions page later. ⁓ If people are

Tim Bouchard (14:11)
Yeah.

Jolene Myers (14:37)
if you’re seeing that there’s a need for that. think repurposing the content that you’ve already got instead of reinventing everything all at once, you’ll build that layer experience over time. And you can, again, tap into people, hey, how’s this working for you? And I know we’re going to touch on that in a few minutes here. But I think just kind of gauging where they are, what they need, don’t feel so overwhelmed by all the tools that are out there, and really just focus on

amping up that content library.

Tim Bouchard (15:11)
We even, I think it was episode two, when Amanda was on, we talked about how, let’s even just take social for example. Sometimes actually doing it less produced is more authentic. And of course you want to still stay within compliance, only talk about things you should be talking about. ⁓ taking a more like raw approach to maybe even doing short video or writing. ⁓

Jolene Myers (15:28)
Right.

Tim Bouchard (15:34)
small posts for things like LinkedIn or something like that can go a long way too. You can just take baby steps at it. But the authenticity can be there even though we think, ⁓ it’s going to be unprofessional. Well, it looks like the rest of social media posts when you think about it. Everyone else is just recording from their phone. You could come off almost fake if you make it so produced and do too much of that.

Jolene Myers (15:51)
Right.

Yeah, I agree. Yeah,

I agree. I think, you know, from a creative standpoint, you know, you see you have a vision and you want to make sure that everything aligns with, you know, the leadership’s perspective and you want it to connect with your audience and all that. But it can seem so incredibly overwhelming. And I think you want to save some space for the creative flow. Right. So ⁓

Looking at all the channels, again, where does your audience live and can you create the different formats and the information in the way that they need it? But also just trying to bite off, you know, small pieces, kind of measure it ⁓ instead of just throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. I think that’s ⁓ a huge step in the right direction.

Tim Bouchard (16:41)
Yeah, you mentioned measuring, so we might as well move to that next. How do you keep track of what might be working, working people look to to make sure they’re doing the right things?

Jolene Myers (16:52)
So we look at engagement and I realize that’s a very broad term. ⁓ But are people actually clicking? Are they watching the videos? Are they finishing the videos, The duration of the videos, right? Watching until the end. If our emails are getting more opens, that’s a win for us if a video has a high completion rate. ⁓ Or if brokers and employers are bringing fewer questions to us, maybe they understood it the first time and that’s a huge win. So ⁓ I think Claire,

Tim Bouchard (16:56)
Mm-hmm.

Jolene Myers (17:22)
shows up in fewer confused phone calls and more confident decisions. So even in our enrollment kits that we send out to new members, right? So if HR’s phone isn’t ringing off the hook with people who are confused about their employee benefits, then we know that we’re communicating that content clearly. in a ⁓ provider’s office for your audience, I think if it’s just people aren’t coming, maybe they’re coming to the office a little better prepared for their appointments, right?

asking those same kind of first level questions, you know that you’re putting something in a brochure or on your website or in a video or a podcast or a text message even ⁓ to kind of answer that upfront so that you have more time with your patients in that room, you know, asking or I’m sorry, answering additional questions.

Tim Bouchard (18:12)
Yeah, and like we were talking about, this is complex stuff and usually, at least on the patient side, sometimes investigated under stress. So by kind of, you know, back to the trust thing and ease of understanding, if you can get those touch points and they’re digesting them, that’s how you get to the conversion point. You can’t just jump to the conversion point. You say, we replaced knees. Okay. They’re not going to just go click a consultation form or

make a phone call because you said you replaced knees. They want to know what your facility is like, who your doctors are, how long have you been around, know, blah, blah, blah. You name it. What’s the story behind this? I want to know that I’m calling the right person. You need to be able to see those touch points first. you know, engagement impressions, watch time, get a bad rap in performance marketing, but we’re not.

In healthcare, it’s a little bit different than the traditional performance marketing. It’s brand trust building and really pulling people into your world to make you the preferred choice.

Jolene Myers (19:12)
Yeah,

it takes time. It takes time, right? So.

I think those testimonials and those videos of just that human to human connection are huge. And again, supplemented with common questions and concerns and a roadmap or a timeline, right? Because this stuff, there’s not just an answer, an easy answer sometimes, or things are going to change overnight. So it’s just that nurturing process kind of going through from, you know, the first call or the first appointment all the way to, you know, a surgery or a procedure or a closed one. You know, I think

Tim Bouchard (19:27)
Mm-hmm.

Jolene Myers (19:47)
it can really work in both industries.

Tim Bouchard (19:50)
Yeah, so let’s say someone’s listened to this and they’re really on board with the idea of maybe I’m coming at this too clinically. Maybe I need to get a better idea of what my audience wants to hear from me, how I can connect with them better. Is there a good place that you might send them to start seeking out the answers and figure out where to start? You know, they can pick the medium and channel maybe after that. But where do they even need to look to for inspiration to flip this narrative?

Jolene Myers (20:19)
Yeah, I think you ask them, you survey them, right? You’re going to ask the source. ⁓ I think for purposes of your audiences. ⁓

you know, of your podcast audience. I think if patients are coming into the office and saying, I finally get it, ⁓ you’re on the right track. You know, you’re on the right track, right? So you can take that next step. You know, you can also watch behaviors. I think I mentioned if they’re coming to the office a little bit better prepared, ⁓ even basic feedback from the front desk, right? I think, you know, if there is a survey sheet on the front desk or you have somebody’s email and you can do a survey monkey or something just to really tap into ⁓

that high level low hanging fruit so to speak to know that your message is landing.

Tim Bouchard (21:04)
Yeah, and that would kind of ramp up everything from there. And back to the idea that this isn’t something that happens overnight, even from the engagements and that aspect of things, if you think of this like a funnel, you have to build up the touch points too. Is there like a, I don’t know, it’s probably hard for you to say on the practice, like practice in healthcare, know, offices side of things, but just generally, like, you see there has to be a certain amount of touch points before you even start to get someone’s attention?

Jolene Myers (21:34)
It’s for us it’s five to ten, honestly, and that’s a mix of emails.

Tim Bouchard (21:36)
I can’t imagine it’s

that much different.

Jolene Myers (21:41)
Right.

You know, you’ve got emails and if they click on an email and you have, we’ve got our blog in there. You can check that out if you want. There’s some topics in there that might, might be interesting. ⁓ We’ve got our video, we’ve got our playlist, we’ve got our podcast. There is PDFs, you know, we’re old school. So we still have PDFs because we found that that connects with our audience, right? So they love those downloadable materials. So we’ll send some PDFs. And I think it’s just living in those spaces.

is kind of doing some A-B testing to see what’s ⁓ Again, if you’ve got a small marketing team or you don’t even have a marketing person at all, right? And you’re just trying to start from square one. ⁓ I think just creating a couple little nuggets of content is a step in the right direction.

Tim Bouchard (22:32)
I think one thing that you’ve brought up, but we haven’t explicitly called out is that it seems like with a lot of your content, there’s always a next call to action. And it’s not always to take action on calling or doing a forum. Sometimes you’re actually just guiding people to that next depth. And I thought that was important to call out to.

Jolene Myers (22:51)
Yeah, no, I, again, I think it’s, alright, if this piqued your interest.

And this is speaking to you. Here’s something else that you might find helpful, you know, as you, as you kind of travel down that path. So it’s trying to, there’s a psychology behind this stuff, right? Like it’s trying to understand where they are and what moves they’re going to make. And you want to be there for your people. You want to support them with as much educational material as possible to help them make the best decision for their needs or their planned population or their patients. So yeah, I think it’s just really

tapping into that and understanding that and having the conversations and looking at the data. It’s a whole mess of things, but ⁓ if you can really start to connect some of those dots, it’ll help you build that stronger strategy.

Tim Bouchard (23:33)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and leaning into what the people are telling you. If you have patient feedback surveys even after, ⁓ maybe they need better onboarding information. Maybe they wanted to feel like they better understood what their need was before they even came in. So there’s all sorts of ways where you could pull that info just from maybe data you already even have from your ERPs and things like that.

Is there anything I haven’t asked you that you’ve been dying to say and want to bring up before we wrap this up?

Jolene Myers (24:11)
No, think, you know, keep it human. We’re human beings. ⁓ If your audience walks away feeling like they actually understand the next step, I think you’ve done your job. I mean, our job’s never really over, but I think it’s a step in the right direction. So I think simplicity builds confidence and confidence builds trust. And in this industry, as you mentioned earlier, trust is everything.

Tim Bouchard (24:37)
I would also say like, it’s a very easy way to take this strategy to give people the impression of what their patient experience will be before they even interact with you. And that can be so strong if it’s done correctly. And then walk in and then you back it up with that actual experience and the patient experience in office too. Great.

Jolene Myers (24:53)
Absolutely.

Yep, 100%.

Tim Bouchard (25:01)
Awesome. Well, this was

Jolene Myers (25:01)
100%.

Tim Bouchard (25:02)
Ben Killer. Have you, why don’t you tell people a little bit more about where they can find more about you and NOVA healthcare administrators.

Jolene Myers (25:11)
Yeah, I’m on LinkedIn so you can connect with me there. ⁓ Nova is novahealthcare.com. ⁓ Yeah, if you are looking for more information on self-funding and what that even is, we have some materials for you to check us out. ⁓ And yeah, mean, reach out with any questions, comments, concerns. I’ll get you connected to the right person if I can’t answer it myself. This was fun. Thank you so much.

Tim Bouchard (25:34)
Awesome. Yeah,

yeah. All right, listeners, if you want to take your practice’s brand and patient recruitment to the next level, take advantage of our patient pipeline blueprint session offer. It’s a workshop to uncover how you can attract new patients and convert more inquiries into appointments for your practice. Learn more at luminus.agency/blueprint. And lastly, don’t forget to subscribe to Healthcare Marketing Edge on Spotify, Apple or YouTube, and we will see you on the next episode. Thanks, Jolene

Jolene Myers (26:02)
Thank you.